Thursday, July 17, 2014

18,000 Microsoft Jobs Gone... Eventually?

1. Cut Once.

2. Cut Deeply.

And might I humbly add:
3. Cut Quickly.

As of this morning, we're looking to cut 18,000 Microsoft positions including around half of the Nokia destruction-palooza orchestrated by Mr. Elop and Mr. Ballmer.

How does this affect all of Microsoft? Redmond? That's a bit unknown. Just looking at the State of Washington WARN site, I don't see a notification from Microsoft yet: http://www.esd.wa.gov/newsandinformation/warn/ .

And that concerns me because now you have a level of stress and anxiety at Microsoft. First, the selfish stress about whether my job is affected. Then personal circle stress. Then partner collaboration stress. Then way out there general concerns about the company. And guess what: when folks are stressed and gossiping, they are not effectively - er, excuse me, productively (?) - implementing the latest strategy. Physiologically, they have increased cortisol and this time will turn into a fog.

That's why I hope that Cut Quickly happens. Without it, we're back to our first layoff experience. If anything broke the back of this blog, it was the first big Microsoft layoff back in 2009. How? How could the realization of a step towards Mini-Microsoft do that? Because it was implemented so poorly, with constant worries and concerns and doubts about engaging in new ideas due to expectations those would be the easiest to trim during ongoing cut-backs. When was it over? When was the "all clear" signal given?

So if this truly drags on for a year: we need a new leader. This needs to be wrapped up by the end of July. 2014.

One last small comment: yeah, everyone loves to flatten, including me. But to truly flatten engineering at Microsoft we need to decide that people management is actually a well invested career path. Most developers I know that become Leads are invariably harmless as a manager but spend most of their time deeply technical because they know that's where the rewards are. For the others that I know that have embraced becoming a people manager and have excelled there: well, if they get flattened into an Individual Contributor then they might as well leave Microsoft. Bless their hearts, but if they had to reconstitute their Dev skills to match the career ladder level they climbed to as a leader, they are sorely out of luck. I'll be honest with them. I hope all the other leaders out there are just as honest.

So.

Thoughts? Are you affected? The one bit of advice I can pass on from the previous round of layoffs: don't leave any HR 1:1 meeting without being absolutely satisfied you know everything you need to know and have everything to move forward. Because once you're out the door, for all the assurances you're going to get, it's super-hard to make a connection for more information and follow-up.

Now, excuse me, I'm sure I'll have a busy morning. And like all of you, I'm keeping an eye out for a sudden HR Generalist meeting that pops up on my calendar... until I hear the All Clear.




1,380 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   1201 – 1380 of 1380
Anonymous said...

Many PMs I have worked with refuse to run even a single powershell script for their own features. None of them have the industry experience in the relevant field. This begs the question of what is the basis of their inputs.

Anonymous said...

The vast majority of Microsoft employees are caucasians.

Here are numbers reported: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/inside_ms.aspx

61% Caucasians and 28.8% Asians, and out of these many Asians are American Citizens or Permanent Residents and less than half of them are on H1B Visa. So this paranoia is seen in this thread is actually just that -- paranoia.

The number of H1-Bs hired by Microsoft is pretty insignificant, compared to the total number of Caucasians\American citizens.

Compare this to the situation in Silicon Valley:
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_22094415/asian-workers-now-dominate-silicon-valley-tech-jobs

Where 50% are Asian and only 40.7% are Caucasian.

So, to all those who are panicking -- reserve it for the stalwarts of Silicon Valley, Microsoft is not even close.

Sunday, July 20, 2014 7:15:00 PM

Anonymous said...

To the SDET with the new home and the expectant wife:

This comes from a father of three who married, had kids and bought a home at a young age (i.e., who engaged in the same slightly over-optimistic life planning process that you probably did) and who has been through his share of software-company layoffs and real-estate turnover. My message to you is simply this: It'll be fine.

I'm not saying you might not have to find a new job at a very inconvenient time. I'm not saying you might not have to move into a different home. I'm saying that even if you do, it'll still be fine. Really, it will.

First-time expectant parents are always freaked out that things are going to affect the baby. I know I was. Tip from somebody who's now been around that block multiple times: 99.9% of the things that you're afraid might hurt the baby will not, in fact, hurt the baby. Our species did not evolve to require nine uninterrupted months of stress-free bliss in order to carry a baby to term. People have had healthy babies during wars, depressions, you name it. Layoff season at a tech company in a city with an otherwise strong economy isn't going to be the exception.

Related point: Your baby won't give a shit whether you're living in your dream home or a less costly starter home, whether you're an owner or a renter, or whether you work at Microsoft or at some fly-by-night startup. (Your wife might care, but that's a separate issue.) As long as your baby gets a basic level of food, shelter and education, and has those things provided by loving parents, he or she will be perfectly okay regardless of what else might be going on in your lives at the time. Just from reading the tone of your brief note, it's pretty clear to me that those things are a given in your case. So don't sweat it, your baby'll be fine.

If you're smart and capable enough to get hired at Microsoft, then I can promise you that you're smart and capable enough to get hired at a hundred other places, too. I hope you won't have to do so right away, because unwanted change sucks regardless, but if it turns out that that's what you have to do, then you'll do it, and it'll be okay. (Fatherhood is basically a never-ending series of "This is what I have to do, so I'll do it" situations. If it isn't this one, it'll be something else. Might as well get accustomed to that reality right up front.)

This stuff is scary as shit and there's not much to be done about the fear while events are unfolding. Nothing anyone says will change that. But life generally turns out all right, even though it NEVER turns out the way you thought it would and planned for it to beforehand. I hope you get through all this in the simplest and most direct way possible (your job sticks around and this all turns out to be a non-issue for you), but either way, you'll get through it. Be a good father and a good husband and the rest will take care of itself. Or rather, YOU'LL take care of it as it comes along. (That's pretty much what those jobs entail.)

Enjoy kissing your new baby in a few months. And don't let this other shit get you down more than it has to. The things that matter most, you already have.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous at 9:33 is not only spot-on brilliant but 100% correct.

Anonymous said...

But don't bring your baby to campus near any of the bathrooms if an Indian has just come out of there....

Anonymous said...

Recently celebrated my 25th year at Microsoft – my role was a Senior SDET Lead. My last two connect reviews where positive, filled with “well dones”. Last review score, prior to the connects, was a 2. I seemed to have been doing everything right. I was let go on Thursday. I loved working at Microsoft. It was my passion. I put everything I could into that company. Today I feel betrayed on a level that I have never felt before in my life. Over the weekend I meet with those that were affected, I did my best to shed a positive light and show that we have a new bright journey ahead of us, but their pain and disbelief crushed me. Yes there was one person that was performing low, but the vast super majority of them were ranked high on the last Connect’s impact level. Yes we get 1 weeks’ pay for every six months and cobra for six months, but my passion and love in my life was taken away. I didn’t even get a thank you or a hand shake, just a bunch of legalize speak from HR that ripped my heat out. It angers me when I hear that Bill is asking for more H1-B visas, it angers me when I hear people say Microsoft cut out the “deadwood” ( there are two people still there that ranked at the bottom of the Connect impact ranking), it angers me when I hear Satya say that he’s going to invest heavily (read; hire a bunch of people)in Data Science and the cloud - we could have been retrained. I have two jobs now; finding a job for me, and finding a job for those in my team and around me. All the best to those remaining at Microsoft, I hope each and every one of you makes it well past 25 years at Microsoft.

Anonymous said...

50% cut in Amy's org seems crazy. Any truth to this?

Anonymous said...

The simultaneous policy changes for V- staff is amazing as well. Talk about shooting himself in the dick. What is Satya thinking? V-'s do over half the work!!!

Anonymous said...

"Today I feel betrayed on a level that I have never felt before in my life. Over the weekend I meet with those that were affected, I did my best to shed a positive light and show that we have a new bright journey ahead of us, but their pain and disbelief crushed me. Yes there was one person that was performing low, but the vast super majority of them were ranked high on the last Connect’s impact level. Yes we get 1 weeks’ pay for every six months and cobra for six months, but my passion and love in my life was taken away. I didn’t even get a thank you or a hand shake, just a bunch of legalize speak from HR that ripped my heat out. It angers me when I hear that Bill is asking for more H1-B visas, it angers me when I hear people say Microsoft cut out the “deadwood” ( there are two people still there that ranked at the bottom of the Connect impact ranking), it angers me when I hear Satya say that he’s going to invest heavily (read; hire a bunch of people)in Data Science and the cloud - we could have been retrained. I have two jobs now; finding a job for me, and finding a job for those in my team and around me. All the best to those remaining at Microsoft, I hope each and every one of you makes it well past 25 years at Microsoft."

1 month ago, even as Satya was planning for this layoff, he was awarding $100 million to one of the big Indian contractors Infosys, being sued for disciminating against Americans, and abusing the H1b visas for 10+ years. Microsoft also has many contracts with Tata, Wipro, HCL, all of these contractors together brings 1 million software "professionals" on trumped up resumes to America, where there are just 2 million software jobs total.


You'd think smart Microsofters could be retrained to manage their own IT. no way, how else could Indian contractors plant moles and listen to company's internal emails?

Get out stupid Americans! Raj will be your Big Brother!

Anonymous said...

>>The simultaneous policy changes for V- staff is amazing as well

A lot of Accenture v- people in Sammamish were pruged in mid of June without even letting know related MS teams. It looked as Accenture decision. They got 2 days notice

Anonymous said...

"we could have been retrained"

--You could not learn in 25 years that the world is getting younger, power is shifting from west to east, from civilian aircrafts to fighter places, from turbines to nuclear plants China and India are on a buying spree that is powering economies of the west. If in these 25 years you had bothered to look into balance sheets of American companies you would have not failed to notice - > 50% of their revenues are being generated outside US of A. If you could not see that shift happening in 25 years, and kept doing the same thing year after year then don't blame Indians & Chinese for the situation you are in today.

Anonymous said...

Has anyone looked at the latest issue of Fortune cover story:

http://fortune.com/2014/07/07/taxes-offshore-dodge/

Anonymous said...

Pro tip to the trolls: product engineering is vastly different from IT. Nobody takes you seriously because you know nothing about Microsoft.

Anonymous said...

Let go this morning, in Finance. Too bitter.

Anonymous said...

> You could not learn in 25 years that the world is getting younger, power is shifting from west to east, from civilian aircrafts to fighter places, from turbines to nuclear plants China and India are on a buying spree that is powering economies of the west. If in these 25 years you had bothered to look into balance sheets of American companies you would have not failed to notice - > 50% of their revenues are being generated outside US of A. If you could not see that shift happening in 25 years, and kept doing the same thing year after year then don't blame Indians & Chinese for the situation you are in today.


More Indian-China boosterism. Indian revenue has always been a tiny blip of total revenue for companies like Google, Microsoft and Cisco. India is just a mass exporter of PPT gurus, outsourcing artists, fake resumes, office-politicians, power-grabbers, nepotist, discriminators, political correct "diversity" talk.

Not sure about China, but China may be the last country whose IT departments are NOT being parasitized by Indians, thanks to the language barrier. That is the real competitive advantage of China's IT industry... LOL

Anonymous said...

Which org in finance were you? are there more layoffs you know in finance?

Anonymous said...

9:33 That's survivor's bias.

Anonymous said...

11:06 Is that in Corp HQ finance? Also were you IC or people mgr?

Anonymous said...

"More Indian-China boosterism. Indian revenue has always been a tiny blip of total revenue for companies like Google, Microsoft and Cisco. India is just a mass exporter of PPT gurus, outsourcing artists, fake resumes, office-politicians, power-grabbers, nepotist, discriminators, political correct "diversity" talk.

Not sure about China, but China may be the last country whose IT departments are NOT being parasitized by Indians, thanks to the language barrier. That is the real competitive advantage of China's IT industry... LOL"

The most accurate statement anyone has ever made on this thread. However, I have to say it is wrong to conflate Indians who have studied here for MS/PHD with the massive hordes who have been brought over from India by Infosys/Wipro etc.

Anonymous said...

The Seattle Times did link to this article, but the reporter doesn't seem to have read too many comments.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous at 9:33: so true.

"As long as your baby gets a basic level of food, shelter and education, and has those things provided by loving parents, he or she will be perfectly okay regardless of what else might be going on in your lives at the time."

Even a little farther... the most important thing is also the thing that costs nothing: "loving parents." Loving your child is easy, and remembering why you're in love is free. Those things are yours and can't be taken away.

Anonymous said...

Big picture:
http://www.india.com/whatever/microsofts-latest-development-under-new-ceo-satya-nadella-19619/

Tata Consultancy Services: Microsoft Business Solutions, recently partnered with the IT major, Tata Consultancy Services for the development of online and on-premise versions of Microsoft Dynamics CRM (customer relationship management). As part of this partnership, India’s largest software services exporter has established a development center to support the upcoming releases and updates to the Microsoft Dynamics CRM Roadmap. TCS has also invested in a test center which comprises of a team of more than 150 highly-skilled engineers. The team is working to identify and create solutions that will improve the user experience, drive process agility and automation, and deliver ‘CRM On The Go’ capabilities.

Reforms in the management: The recent and most shocking add on to these announcements is the reshaping of the company’s top management teams. This executive reshuffle witnessed two of the top officials part ways with the company. These are EVP of Business Development and former Skype CEO Tony Bates. Mr. Bates is said to have been in the shortlist of the prolonged Microsoft CEO search. Yet another executive leaving the company is Tami Reller who was EVP marketing. While Mr. Bates will leave immediately, Reller will remain to oversee transition.

And of course, Infosys got $100million boost from Satya, even while he's working on cutting the American "fat" from Microsoft.
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9175442/Microsoft_signs_outsourcing_pact_with_Indian_giant_Infosys

Anonymous said...

Sounds like we will have something to talk about Tuesday night

Microsoft Corp. is scheduled to deliver its fiscal fourth-quarter results after the close of trading on Tuesday, and Chief Executive Satya Nadella and other company officials can probably expect to take as many questions about the software giant's plan to cut 18,000 jobs as about its quarterly earnings and sales.

http://news.morningstar.com/all/market-watch/TDJNMW20140721180/update-microsoft-to-face-layoff-questions-with-earnings-report.aspx

Anonymous said...

> Microsoft Corp. is scheduled to deliver its fiscal
> fourth-quarter results after the close of trading on
> Tuesday, and Chief Executive Satya Nadella and

Maybe one of our recently rif'd brethren could get on the call as an "individual investor" (a legitimate designation since most of us own some stock) and ask the Dear leader some polite but probing questions as to the direction the layoffs are taking (and what the next shoe to fall will be)?

Anonymous said...

>The most accurate statement anyone has ever made on this thread. However, I have to say it is wrong to conflate Indians who have studied here for MS/PHD with the massive hordes who have been brought over from India by Infosys/Wipro etc.

True. But the ratio is like 1/10 good ones. Often even the good Indian engineer is complicit in the Indian take over and serve as a Trojian horse.

Microsofties should visit Bay Area, in companies like VMware, Cisco, Qualcomm, you will see 1 caucasian engineer, 1 Asian engineer and 8 Indian engineers.

Hop on a plane check out big financial companies, insurance, auto companies IT departments, you will see the same "diversity" of 90% Indians.

This is what Microsoft will look like in 2 years at this rate. The playbook is the same everywhere. Layoff of Americans at the same time as outsourcing/contracting/H1b visas.

2014, 1 million imported Indian software gurus in software industry of only 2 million jobs, are very powerful.
2024, 2 million imported Indian software gurus will control America from nerve center out.

So, Microsofties wake up, don't blame yourself for being laid off. It's not your fault. But failing to wake up and storm the rampants, that is your fault.


Anonymous said...

Lots of strange changes on who/

Look up your management chain and look at all the open positions that can't be found on HRweb. Wondering if this is part of the restructuring

Anonymous said...

But failing to wake up and storm the rampants, that is your fault.

I think the word you intended to use was "ramparts". But care to elaborate on how you intend to do the "storming"?

Anonymous said...

Let go today from marketing. Been with the company for 14 years. Got the standard things that most have talked about. Was told I could apply internally. Feeling deflated.

Anonymous said...

11:19 When someone is experiencing "oh shit I'm going through all these things for the first time in my life and it feels like the world is ending" bias, survivor's bias may still provide a useful perspective. Especially when discussing events that the overwhelming majority of people who go through them do, in fact, survive.

But hey, if somebody else wants to chime in and tell the dude that he'll probably lose his baby and end up living in a cardboard box somewhere, it's a permanent open-mic night around here and nobody's going to stop them. I just don't think their advice will be particularly accurate or helpful.

Anonymous said...

I chose to leave January 2012 after 13 years, and have not looked back. The first gig with a Bainbridge Island company was a turd sandwich, but sunshine and roses since then. Better pay, better benefits (medical and retirement) and way less stress, backstabbing, and sycophantic boot-licking.

Cliche as it has become, "Life is better after Microsoft"

Anonymous said...

> I think the word you intended to use was "ramparts". But care to elaborate on how you intend to do the "storming"?

LOL thanks for the correction. Action list:
1. tell Microsoftie friends and pass on to friends' friends.

Talk about infosys, wipro, HCL, Tata, Cognizant's parasitic hold on Microsoft, Amazon, Oracle, Cisco, Qualcomm,Nokia, Vmware.

Motorola and Sun are dead and buried but during their death spiral they bred thousands of Indian managers to conquer America's high tech. Microsoft is the next one to undergo the same fate.

2. organize and stop infighting, sdes against sdets, PMs against devs, lawyers against devs, Russians against Ukrainians, Chinese against French, Canadians against Finns, Americans against whoever. Satya designed his looong layoff to make you fight for scraps and drive all nonIndian talent away.

3. media, politicians, MSFT alums, all swarm to check out Microsoft's contracts with the Indian outsourcing giants. Cut those contracts before laying off Americans.

4. Force Nokia's Indian plant to close. It's a stupid waste of money.

5. Kick Satya and his buddies and his Indian H1b serfs out. His vision is so hollow, IBM and Apple and the whole world laughs at it. His execution of this layoff is pathetic and a conspiracy to destroy Microsoft.

Anonymous said...

So basically, they are laying off SDET and outsource the job to tata/infosys/wipro in India?

Anonymous said...

American developers. American jobs are being given to foreign colonizers.

For the sake of your career and your loved ones, do something either legal or extralegal. Your birthright as an American citizen and your livelihood is being taken away from you. Your children's futures are at risk.

What kind of men are you to allow this to happen? Don't take this like a whipped dog.

Fight back!!!

Anonymous said...

>So basically, they are laying off SDET and outsource the job to tata/infosys/wipro in India?

No, more likely the plan is to retrain Indian SDET into SDEs, Indian PMs into greater roles, Indian contractors into FTEs. While the nonIndians fight over scraps, losers get poor performance reviews or kicked out through rounds of layoffs , while the survivors could be ambushed picked out one by one.

End result should look like VMWare & Cisco. Go check it out.

Indians already got a stranglehold on company IT, so everyone needs to be careful talking internally.

Surkanstance said...

I was let go in 2009 and went through a process of re-inventing my career. I can truly say I am MUCH happier now than I ever was during my years at Microsoft, but it wasn't easy to get here. I had a lot of psychological baggage to get rid of and had to learn how to re-think my way out of all the Microsoft double-speak.

I really feel for those people being let go now. I would be delighted to offer whatever advice and moral support to anyone who would like it. Feel free to e-mail me at michael at surkan dot com.

I would be happy to share tips I relied on to network and find new opportunities (such as podcasting, innovative ways to make friends on LinkedIn, etc).

I have some videos on YouTube that outline some of these strategies too (I don't make any money from any of this, it is all just to help others).

If there is one thing I regret out of what happened in my departure is that I didn't leave 2 or 3 years earlier when it would have been easier to transition somewhere else.

Just don't settle staying somewhere where you don't really feel able to realize your potential!

Anonymous said...

To the dev with the kids and the pregnant wife, and the mortgage.

If you are an H1B, then please go back to India.

If you are a US citizen, go on unemployment or grab a contracting gig. In either case start looking locally for an FTE job.

Worse comes to worst you either move or you work out of the area and come home on weekends until you find a new gig.

Also, you can rent your home to a nice Indian family and move out of the area.

You have options, don't panic.

Anonymous said...

"What kind of men are you to allow this to happen? Don't take this like a whipped dog.

Fight back!!!"


Can we see any action photos of you 'going over the top,' Hunt-and-Peck Braveheart?

Anyway, keep it up. You're going to lose your audience out of sheer boredom, if nothing else. Dull, dull, dull.

Anonymous said...

Well at least you all got some severance. In spite of good reviews, 2 gold stars, and years of quality work, I left last year after 15 years (I left on my own but I had been told that I was on my way out). I started my own company and am doing fine as I'm sure you all will. I can assure you all that after a little time has passed you will wonder why you stayed as long as you did. EVERYONE I know who was forced out due to age (which is really what was happening before the layoffs, I'm 50 for instance)says the same. There is life after MSFT and it is better than life at MSFT. Take some chances, join a start up, you might find the old Microsoft is alive just somewhere else. I have absolutely recaptured the love of my job and the fun that Microsoft used to provide.

Anonymous said...

If you are impacted, you do your research on the firms that do this work to assist for job placement and ask for who you want rather than take the one size fits all choice they offer it's very impersonal otherwise...my .2 cents...

Anonymous said...

"Can we see any action photos of you 'going over the top,' Hunt-and-Peck Braveheart?"

So what are you going to do sit back and let a foreigner take your job? Unless of course you are one of them.

Anonymous said...

To all the people affected by the layoff - I feel for you and I know it is a hard time for you but positive side is that the software industry is hiring big time right now. It's never a better time to find tech job out there.

To the employee who spent 25 years - you can retire or start your own business. Unless you are not good in managing your own money, you should be very well off. Looking at some other comments, some engineers can save up to 200k for just 2 years.

Anonymous said...


Just wanted to underscore the point someone made about the folks with MS/PHD(Indians/Chinese/Russians etc.) hired directly from universities as opposed to the sea of politically-savvy garbage being brought over from India by Infosys/Wipro/TCS etc. Folks with MS/PHDs are hired as direct employees by MS/Facebook/Google alongwith with US citizens and paid exactly the same salary as their US citizen counterpart. The problem is MS/Facebook/Google do not have any other visa to use for these folks other than the H1-B. Hence the confusion between the cheap labor being brought over from India and the folks who have come here on their own for education and are hired as direct employees.

Anonymous said...

"Just wanted to underscore the point someone made about the folks with MS/PHD(Indians/Chinese/Russians etc.) hired directly from universities as opposed to the sea of politically-savvy garbage being brought over from India ..."

Doesn't matter, when the revolution comes no one will be paying attention to such nuance.

Anonymous said...

Nothing against Indians as a race, but, if they could make their own country first class, (they do not have that track record of making their country great apart from creating story telling religions), so how do we expect them to make America first class? More than likely, the quality of work will suffer in all lines of work they meddle with, and the US will no longer be world class country. It is already happening around the country.

Anonymous said...

"More than likely, the quality of work will suffer in all lines of work they meddle with, and the US will no longer be world class country."

Look at the fine job they did buggering up Microsoft and screwing over the US employees. You think Ballmer was an 'F'-up wait until you see what our new philosopher king Nutella will do.

Anonymous said...

Redmond circa (2050):

http://www.chinasmack.com/2010/pictures/filthy-india-photos-chinese-netizen-reactions.html

Anonymous said...

Unless of course you are one of them.

Ah, right; "them," "they," "the other," "the scary different."

Travel, see the world, get out a little more. As it stands now your fear is making us look like a bunch of clueless, ignorant hicks. Generalization works all ways; people reading this comment thread might form the wrong conclusions about Americans in general.

Anonymous said...

"Travel, see the world, get out a little more."

Dude, check out the link in the post above. All I know is that we still have some semblance of a nation. I am not a citizen of the world but the US. My father, grandfather, and great gradfather built and fought for this country.

I think Americans should have a first shot at American jobs. Through cronyism and other factors foreigners are getting jobs that are being denied to US citizens.

Anonymous said...

The concept of "future potential" as a factor in layoffs and performance reviews has been key in MS's decade-of-demise. ("Future potential" is also a wash-term for "age" - the older you are, the less your "future potential". While not overt, it's a means that enables age discrimination.) More importantly though, it means MS managers don't need to measure and reward actual performance. Managers can hand rewards to any person they feel has more "future potential", even when the individual performs at lower levels than others. As repeated in MBA programs, "You can't manage what you don't measure". "Future potential" though allows MS managers to skip measuring performance and dole out rewards to favorites. Strong companies and managers base rewards on actual measured performance, not some guess for the future.

- former softie (who left of his own volition)

Anonymous said...

God please this is my first job, home and baby.

I was in the 2009 layoffs. I managed to switch to a totally different career path within MS, but it took a little bit. Competition always exists but there are those who whine, and those who work. You have a family to support so you don't get to whine. Put your nose to the grind stone and find something. Cut your expenses to minimums starting right now..., stay away from temp work that might invalidate any unemployment pay you might get and might pay more than a burger flipping job. Don't take the stress out on your wife and baby. If you lose the house that sucks, but you can always get another house once things improve. It will be a tough road and a test of your character, but you got one job, you can get another.

Anonymous said...

The guy trolling here is not some crazy loonie, but a paid shill of some type. This is typical psy ops run as part of a campaign.

many of his assertions can be disproved rather easily. His undoing is the china website he linked. Good luck raising a rabble you phony.

Anonymous said...

Dude, check out the link in the post above. All I know is that we still have some semblance of a nation.

I don't think you'll find a single Indian H1B worker who likes the pictures in that link, considers it part of his/her culture, and wants to export it to America. These are the people who would escape given the chance because they are a miniscule fraction in their home country and have no power to change things (like cleaning up their country.) And most of these guys are kids who have never been far from their families, let alone to a different country. It takes them a bit of time to understand American norms and adjust to them, but adjust they do in due course (assuming they wish to stay for the long term.)

Now the other part of your appeal is different (American jobs for Americans). If that's the basis of your worldview, none of the above matters. Indians on H1B could be model Americans from the day they land in the country, but they would still be competing for jobs with US citizens. Then people like you (and there seem to be a lot of such people on the web, or at least they are very vocal) should organize a concerted political campaign to completely ban any foreigner from getting a job in the US. And you should also lobby for an end to student visas, so no foreigner even gets a US diploma (which makes them attractive hires in the eyes of employers, including Microsoft). But while you are at it, make sure you ban not only Indians but also Russians, British, Australians, everyone. If you don't, this will all be about race, and only about race.

Anonymous said...

"Then people like you (and there seem to be a lot of such people on the web, or at least they are very vocal) should organize a concerted political campaign to completely ban any foreigner from getting a job in the US."

I am simply trying to raise awareness. The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step.

Anonymous said...

What about vendors having to take a break after 18 months of network/building access? The policy only applies to the US, btw. Where will all the perma-vendors go on Jan 1, 2016 when the policy forces them to leave? They said it's to reduce "security risks". Never knew length of tenure correlated with increased security risk. Sounds like cost-cutting to me.

Anonymous said...

God please this is my first job, home and baby.

Don't you have family (parents, siblings) and friends? Surely they'll help you, financially and emotionally, while you look for another job; which you eventually will find, given that at least one company (MS) considered you good enough to be hired. You hardly sound like a welfare case.

Anonymous said...

"God please this is my first job, home and baby."

Then be a man and fight for your family, your future, your kid's future.

There is an H1B that has a job that you are qualified for, yet he has the job and you don't.

Anonymous said...

Lvl 63, Finance, Redmond, IC shown the door. Didn't even allow to collect my stuff. Thought her memo said reducing layers. His talk about transparency is just that.

Anonymous said...

I am simply trying to raise awareness. The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step.

I don't think anyone is unaware of the concept that foreign labor will compete with domestic labor. But the public narrative is that (1) there are more jobs than qualified workers, so foreign workers are filling a shortage, and (2) foreigners skilled enough to work in IT (or other STEM fields) are not a net burden on society, and in fact disproportionally create jobs and enrich the economy through entrepreneurship. Now you may dispute this narrative, so if you can disprove it with facts, getting a foreign workers' ban should be straightforward. It is hardly a thousand-mile journey, as you put it.

Anonymous said...

4:55 Are you part of SMSG or Corp Finance? How long were you in MS?

Anonymous said...

Hey Hey! As an SDET laid off in the first round of 2009 I'm glad to see mini has made this post for the current and former 'softies here. I had a 10 year career as a 'softie, and it almost ruined me; I bought the recruiters' lines about "STE can convert to SDE in a few years" followed by "SDET is an SDE for tools." In 2009 no one was hiring, and a lot of vendors wanted to hire me to return to MSFT and do some testing on contract. FUCK THAT. If I slaved some time away and got another shot at full time when the economy rebounded I would have zero vacation vesting and zero stock vested. Neither would I return to do my former work for half the price. It took a long time to clean the stink of MS off me. A few things from my experience:

1) Half of these comments are trolls. msft-trolls and internet-trolls. msft-trolls are blue badges who are safe and cushy for whatever reason, and love to rub your nose in it. Don't sweat them, they will be on the block soon enough, or worse: suffer a career of fear that some day someone will discover just how much an asshat they are. It keeps them up at night, trust me. The internet trolls are saying things about the age of layoffs, the health care expense, and the H1B's. These people are just randos trying to troll you. I am certain because they are word for word the same people whose "husbands" were laid off in 2009.

2) Life is better outside MSFT. Infinitely better. But you are not eligible for that better life. You are stained and tainted by your past at MSFT. This is your own damn fault. Your first thought is landing a job at Amazon? LOL. You are truly the chaff of mega-corps everywhere, and Amazon ought to know better but may still give you a sniff test for charity. You have obviously been sucking corporate teat for so long you are completely out of touch, if you ever were in touch in the first place.

Anonymous said...



3) Get over it. You just got a nice severance and have 60 days to NOT THINK ABOUT SOFTWARE. Followed by real unemployment. This should allow you the time it will require for you to clean the shit-stains of Microsoft off you. Relax, travel (cheaply), catch up with old friends and family, revisit your hobbies - STAY BUSY and HAVE FUN. No one at Microsoft wants to hear from you, because you are now dead to them. So move on. After enough time, you will remember why you love software in the first place. Then you can begin to work on your skills and resume and remaking yourself into something the industry needs. Take some classes, learn any platform besides Microsoft - ANY of them. Get involved with some hobby-projects, go to meetups, show off your new skills on github.

3) Do not, I repeat, DO NOT run to another company run by former 'softies. It is tempting, but then what's really changed? Do you think Zillow is all awesome and sweet because they were a startup? Think again! It is full of 'softies, and run like MSFT. You will be trapped in the same misery all over again. You just escaped an inwardly focused bubble; do not return to another one. And absolutely DO NOT take a vendor position back at Microsoft. That will kill you and you will never be eligible to move on in your career.

4) Once you're over it, start making use of all your contacts outside of Microsoft to find employment. What's that? You don't know anyone outside Microsoft? Now you see what I meant about: This Is Your Fault. In the real world people from different companies interact, recommend each other to employers, provide contacts and opportunities. NOBODY AT MICROSOFT WILL DO THIS FOR YOU. They don't know how. They are sucking teat and have ZERO ability to hire. In the real world? People hire people, and they will hire you. Too bad you only ever talked to and interacted with 'softies for so damn long. It's your own damn fault you're so terrified right now, asshat.

5) You have a lot of amazing talent and knowledge that you've gained from being in MSFT, and that is very desirable to startups and small companies PROVIDED YOU DO NOT CARRY THE STINK IN WITH YOU. Remember those things you learned in between managing-up and writing spec-templates and review-goals? Yea, those things. The important things that got like 10% of the release cycle. Well you are pretty good at that compared to most college grads and startup employees, so you will be CRUCIAL to them. Once you are free from the shit of MSFT upper management that currently stains your entire being. Really, it's an aura around you that hirers will see from miles.

I'm now a dev making twice what I made at Microsoft and my LinkedIn profile rings multiple times daily with head hunters. I reinvented myself, I made it, you can too. DON'T LOOK BACK.

Anonymous said...

The narrative of insufficient STEM workers is contrived by the tech industry in order to drive down wages and to have subservient indentured servants. It's labor arbitrage.

There are plenty of US STEM workers.

http://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/education/the-stem-crisis-is-a-myth

The Civil War in the US was fought to end slavery not because of it's immorality but because it was effectively doing the same thing as is being done with H1B & L1, flooding the market with very cheap labor.

We had labor wars in this country in the beginning through the middle of the twentieth century. Many people sacrificed jobs and in some cases their lives in order to bring about decent working conditions. The middle class lifestyle which we are fast losing is being undone due to a huge influx of labor at both the lower and upper ends of the spectrum.

Again, there was a time in this country when people recognized that their livelihood was being threatened or their working conditions were horrible and took action.

I think the time for action is now.

Anonymous said...

I was in Windows Server, L64, was a L65, and took a level cut to move orgs. Been at MS for 18 years.

I looking at this as a new opportunity to explore what I want to be doing and where I want to be doing it.

Loved the comment about losing our way when Bill left and losing our soul when KT was hired.

I was a loyal MS employee, but also know most of these decisions were made at the GM or higher level. Neither my boss, nor my bosses boss, were aware of me being on the list until the morning of.

I was on vacation, so the news had to be delivered remotely. That sucked, but it also gave me some breathing room.

I think it also may be healthy for me to not have my identity associated with my MS email address.

Anonymous said...

"I was on vacation..."

Microsoft may off vacation time but only a fool uses it.

Anonymous said...

Terry Myerson today sent out mail to all of OSG answering some of the biggest questions that people have still been asking and rumors have been flying about here. For people outside of OSG curious about what's going on there:

1. There will be no lead/management cuts to "increase the span of control" of managers. We will continue to have do-nothing leads with 2-4 direct reports enjoying fat bonuses and getting in the way of actual progress.

2. There will be no org flattening. It will continue to be IC -> Lead (M1) -> Manager (M2) -> Director -> VP/GM -> Terry -> Satya. You will continue to be unable to do anything remotely resembling innovation and there will be a dozen overreaching stakeholders involved in every trivial decision.

3. The ratio rebalancing is all done, including for PM to dev ratio. No impending PM cuts.

4. No combined engineering (...for now.) SDETs remain SDETs.

5. Restructuring for OSG is done. No changes to ratios, no hierarchy flattening, no management reorgs, no role changes. No update in six months about phase two. What is in place now will remain in place for the foreseeable future.

So tl;dr - the good news: no more changes. The bad news: no more changes.

Anonymous said...



"Just wanted to underscore the point someone made about the folks with MS/PHD(Indians/Chinese/Russians etc.) hired directly from universities as opposed to the sea of politically-savvy garbage being brought over from India ..."


Good point. America still wants honest, smart and hardworking people of all races, just not the diversity of 50-90% Indians please! This libtard diversity is stifling our talent supply chain and killing our high tech's competitive advantage.

A while back Google raised a brouhaha because they only have 30% women. I wonder whether we could force all the high tech companies to release their ethnic breakup. I saw one from mercurynews but it only talked about Asians. Indian invasion is the dirty secret in American high tech.


Anonymous said...

Sr. PM OSG this afternoon. Was told performance. No severance

Anonymous said...

Why could Indian contractors stay 18 month? They will just find a way to become FTE. 1 day should be sufficient.

Anonymous said...

Some folks are getting 1 week for every 6 months. Let's say someone worked for 10 years (5 months severance) and finds job within 1 month of layoff, does remaining severance pay need to be returned ?

Anonymous said...

Some folks are getting 1 week for every 6 months. Let's say someone worked for 10 years (5 months severance) and finds job within 1 month of layoff, does remaining severance pay need to be returned?

Only if they return to MSFT within 6 months - a pro-rated portion of it.

Anonymous said...

"does remaining severance pay need to be returned ?"

Read your paperwork, all the details on this topic are in your packet, there are a number of requirements on the severance you need to be concerned with.

Anonymous said...

And here I thought OSG was all clear. Good luck.

Anonymous said...

""does remaining severance pay need to be returned ?"

Read your paperwork, all the details on this topic are in your packet, there are a number of requirements on the severance you need to be concerned with."

I was not impacted this time but may get impacted next time therefore asking in advance. Can someone shed light on these requirements ?

Anonymous said...

MS does not care about any of you. They conspire to lower your salaries and diminish your standard of living. All just to make a few people at the top even richer. They will never stop. We as a country deserve
better. Any laws that are intended to protect us they undermine and nullify. Any laws that are intended to protect them they lobby to have enforced ruthlessly. They will not stop. They need to be put in their place. They are enemies of state and should be prosecuted as such. They will never grow an ethos. You can only be disposable people with disposable children unless you flex your democratic muscle and nationalize the traitor organization.

Anonymous said...

Don't blame H1B's. The simple truth is that Indians are extremely good at beating the system. If you put in perf appraisal system without cross-referencing with common-sense, then you have hoards of Indians taking you for a ride. Blame it on the white guy who wanted to manage without getting hands dirty and knowing the details.

Anonymous said...

http://www.h1b.info

Anonymous said...

For all the bitching about Indians, I have to tell you how much fun I had with the wife of a manager in the Online Services Group (Ads). I think his name was Rajeev or Rajesh. Some mighty fine poon tang.

I don't work in tech but there are plenty in my neighborhood. She was eager to please because her husband was not giving her enough attention.

Do all Indian women have such hairy pussies? That's my only complaint.

Anonymous said...

MSFTer's, most of us have left, but this has turned into a forum for racist imps and men\boys with penis size issues. Pls boycott.

Anonymous said...

I agree that we have read too much about penis on this blog. That being said, our country is in trouble as long as we are content to call ourselves to stupid to employ and too worthless to train. We have to grow our own talent. We are screwing the next generation with a massive knowledge transfer. Caring about this country first does not make me a racist. What is happening to us is unacceptable. Calling me a racist is just a way of dismissing what I say without offering an argument. It is cowardly name calling.

Anonymous said...

Indian women are easy. I have had flings with both a PM and an SDET. I think they see white men as trophies and are very approachable. Again, same story, hubbies were too busy with work. One hubby was at Amazon not sure where the other one worked.

This is not racist crap. They were very feminine and both were petite and pretty.

The one conquest that I tried hard at and didn't make was with an Iranian PM. She flirted up a storm but I didn't get to first base with her.

I never tried the Chinese. I hear the men have small dongs so they might be game.

So, I am all I favor of diversity. Don't call me a racist.

Anonymous said...

Any layoff in the dataceneters?

Anonymous said...

Terry's mail didn't say no more changes. Round two is coming in a couple of days.

Anonymous said...

I am h1-b and I didn't like my money, so HCL made a bank statement that said I saved 200k in 6months. Hooray, I am rich America!

Anonymous said...

add me to the list of guys who hooked up with a msft indian wife. petite and tight and took my cock well. she didn't swallow so i'll never forget the massive load i delivered to her face and hair, and it was really hot how my batter contrasted with her skin. so don't overlook that and give it a shot. i did and she took it well.

Anonymous said...

"celebrated my 25th year at Microsoft – my role was a Senior SDET Lead"

how come you were not kicked out long time ago for staying too long in one level?

Anonymous said...

"Yahoo, Google, Facebook and LinkedIn recently released staff demographic data showing that four of the tech sector's largest firms remain largely white and male."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2014/06/25/facebook-diversity/11369019/

Anonymous said...

IMHO, Indian women are easy because they have arranged marriages and there is very little romance. Even in this day and age when they are in the tech workplace the husband still treats them like chattel.

I little romance goes a long way with them. It starts out with a smile and a glance in a meeting that lasts a little longer than proper etiquette would dictate. Review some code together or in my case review a defect in TFS together.

They want romance and they want to bag a white dude. Their husbands are usually douche bags so don't feel any remorse.

Anonymous said...

>I don't think you'll find a single Indian H1B worker who likes the pictures in that link, considers it part of his/her culture, and wants to export it to America. These are the people who would escape given the chance because they are a miniscule fraction in their home country and have no power to change things (like cleaning up their country.) And most of these guys are kids who have never been far from their families, let alone to a different country. It takes them a bit of time to understand American norms and adjust to them, but adjust they do in due course (assuming they wish to stay for the long term.)

Every thief is trying to escape poverty. He just doesn't bother to do hard work to change his own community.

>Now the other part of your appeal is different (American jobs for Americans). If that's the basis of your worldview, none of the above matters. Indians on H1B could be model Americans from the day they land in the country, but they would still be competing for jobs with US citizens. Then people like you (and there seem to be a lot of such people on the web, or at least they are very vocal) should organize a concerted political campaign to completely ban any foreigner from getting a job in the US. And you should also lobby for an end to student visas, so no foreigner even gets a US diploma (which makes them attractive hires in the eyes of employers, including Microsoft). But while you are at it, make sure you ban not only Indians but also Russians, British, Australians, everyone. If you don't, this will all be about race, and only about race.

Trying to turn Americans against all foreigners? Why is Indians getting 10 times more visas than any other foreigners? Don't tell me you are 10 times as smart or as hardworking. Don't tell me the million Indian guru hordes you've imported into America are saving American cavemen from IT wilderness.

If so, let us go back to the IT wilderness when we had real diversity and real competitive edge.

Anonymous said...

You know if it wasn't for the fact that we are being overrun by Indians they are pretty decent people.

The ones that I wish we weren't importing are the Muslims. Besides their proclivity for leaving cups all over the bathroom to clean up after they jerk off, you never know when one of them is about to undergo Sudden Jihad Syndrome.

I want to request from our Hindu masters, fellow infidels, that you get rid of the Muzzies. One of these days during Ramadan, from lack of sleep and sufficient nourishment, one of them is going to go off and it ain't gonna be pretty.

With this thing in the Israel and Gaza heating up it's only a matter of time before one of them goes off.

Anonymous said...

"Why is Indians getting 10 times more visas than any other foreigners?"

Because they are in charge now. When I worked at MSFT I had a token Uzbek, Turk, Russian, Romanian, Dane. All sharp guys. How about we offer some of those laid off Finns a job here in the states? How come MS is not looking out for them.

Oh, yeah, I forgot, they aren't from the subcontinent.

Anonymous said...

Is it because they are Muslim and not Hindi, that they refuse to bathe?

Anonymous said...

> "Amazon ought to know better but may still give you a sniff test for charity"

Most 'softies don't know Linux or Java so Amazon wouldn't touch them anyway.

Besides why would anyone *want* to go to Amazon? Everybody says that places is a total sweatshop. Even the good reviews on Glassdoor mention the crappy work life balance. Can't imagine what the bad ones are like.

Anonymous said...

"Is it because they are Muslim and not Hindi, that they refuse to bathe?"

Hey you got to give them credit, they do wash up after a good JO session.

The ones I knew were a little too serious, kind of like a little psychopath serious. You never knew when the straw was going to break the camels back and they were going to go berserk.

Hey if I wake up and find Bellevue City Center is a pile of rubble someday I won't be surprised.

Give me a good natured Indian any day. Muzzies give me the creeps. Satya, take a message. Fire all the potential martyrs.

Anonymous said...

This is a start to PM layoffs in the next coming years if not sooner. This layoffs reminds me of when they first firing STEs, but not SDETs. So now big SDET layoffs, it should be no surprise here.

There's a redefining of PM role in my org. (ASG) Any news on PMs in this layoff in other orgs?

Anonymous said...

"I don't think you'll find a single Indian H1B worker who likes the pictures in that link, considers it part of his/her culture, and wants to export it to America. These are the people who would escape given the chance because they are a miniscule fraction in their home country and have no power to change things (like cleaning up their country.) ..."

Most of the Indian H1b visa holders are Brahmins or high caste. These people are not helplessly oppressed, rather oppressors of the low castes for three thousand years . Now these Brahmins just found a new unwary people, the Americans, to steal from and to lord over for the next three thousand years.

Satya is high caste. Most of the fast tracked Indians are high caste. Americans open our eyes at the deceit and hypocrisy and double standards of the Indian caste system.
It's unique, it's powerful, it's a world record, going strong after 2000-3000 years. And it's pure evil.

Anonymous said...

"..i'll never forget the massive load i delivered to her face and hair.."

I'll never forget how she kept screaming "Jai Ho!" as I kept pounding her.

Anonymous said...

All those Asian haters, Microsoft is so f**ed up today only because of the two persons:
SteveB: because of his idiotic leadership and arrogance
LisaB: because of her stupid stack ranking system

These both are neither Indians nor Muzlims nor Chinese. So whites, get the message and stop cribbing.

Anonymous said...

"Now these Brahmins just found a new unwary people, the Americans, to steal from and to lord over for the next three thousand years."

In a few generations there won't be any whites left. What do you suppose will happen when Brahmin, La Raza, and Detroit collide.

Anonymous said...

I am appalled, speechless.

Bye minimsft! The rumors here aren't worth the humiliation.

Anonymous said...

Hello, my name is Jambunathan Ramakrishnan Subramanian. I was let go today from SMSG Finance, Lv 62, IC. Not performance based, but re-structuring. 8 years total at MS.

The only bright side is that my wife is a Test Lead and still employed at MSIT. Maybe now I can use my free time to fuck my wife as often as possible to keep her away from you white boys.

Anonymous said...

All those Asian haters, Microsoft is so f**ed up today only because of the two persons:

"LisaB"

Watch it buddy is she is our LGBQT master.

Anonymous said...

Any word on whether C&E is clear now? During the big Azure status update meeting today JasonZ said something to the tune of "keep calm and focus on the awesome things we're delivering". But he hasn't denied anything either, so inquiring minds inquire.

Anonymous said...

Microsoft giving $100 million contract to Infosys...

Whats wrong with that? If Microsoft gives the same contract to local lazy whites, it will take thrice of the time and cost 10 times more.So totally makes sense to outsource it to India.

Anonymous said...

More layoffs to come in Azure after review is done. And this time, beware all those buggy devs and useless PMs, you are next.

Anonymous said...

Jambunathan, answer me this, do all Hindi chicks scream "Jai Ho!" when they are about to climax or did I just have a lucky day with Rajesh (or Rajeev's) wife.

Anonymous said...

I don't remember hearing any such thing during the Jason's Azure status meeting today.

Where did you get this info?

Anonymous said...

"Anonymous said...
More layoffs to come in Azure after review is done. And this time, beware all those buggy devs and useless PMs, you are next.

Monday, July 21, 2014 9:22:00 PM"

I don't remember hearing any such thing during the Jason's Azure status meeting today.

Where did you get this info?

Anonymous said...

Jambunathan, answer me this, do all Hindi chicks scream "Jai Ho!" when they are about to climax or did I just have a lucky day with Rajesh (or Rajeev's) wife.

>>>> No sir. Most of them shout "Ya Allah..Ya Allah"

Anonymous said...

>> Microsoft giving $100 million contract to Infosys...

>Whats wrong with that? If Microsoft gives the same contract to local lazy whites, it will take thrice of the time and cost 10 times more.So totally makes sense to outsource it to India.

That's so much bull. Target outsourced to India, and 40 million credit cards were hacked while Indian IT ignored the alarm. Ebay had lots of Indian outsourcing, lots of customer info got hacked.

Hundreds of firms got burned by the Indian Guru Trap. Apple and Google both sent money to Indian Gurus and got nothing but lots of hot air. Obamacare website was developed by Indian gurus, and had to get Google's boys to rescue them.

The subcontinent sent out a few million gurus all over the world to steal and deceive and trash the world's IT system and strangle their young talents.

Microsoft and Nokia are both receiving end of it. So are tons of other companies: Cisco, Qualcomm, Oracle, SAP, motorola (defunct), Sun, IBM, VMWare.

Google and Apple and Facebook and Yahoo are still holding ground. But if Microsoft and IBM and Oracle falls, it's only a matter of time.

So, Americans, should we watch on as Satya carries out his masterplan of killing Microsft with long layoff while rewarding his Indian buddies with Microsoft's corpse?

Or take him out.


Anonymous said...

Anon at 9:25, I'm also curious about this. But I've only done Sanjeeb's wife and I taught her to scream "Diversity is our strength!" whenever she was ready to "cum".

Anonymous said...

C+E PM they took my card today.

Anonymous said...

List of skips to not work. YMMV
1 Greg Harmon

Anonymous said...

You guys got this white boy all excited. I want to hit on a Hindi chick. I live in Sammamish and there are plenty of them here. I don't care if they scream Jai Ho!, Diversity is Strength, or Ya Allah.

I think I could potentially get won over by the other side. Any Hindi chicks out there want to try a white guy?

Anonymous said...

IP addresses are being monitored. All racist comments will be tracked and the offenders will be duly punished. I dare you to make one more inappropriate comment.

-Sanjeev

michelle said...

Microsoft deserve such big physical operation.

Anonymous said...

> A while back Google raised a brouhaha because they only have 30% women. I wonder whether we could force all the high tech companies to release their ethnic breakup. I saw one from mercurynews but it only talked about Asians. Indian invasion is the dirty secret in American high tech.

Google does publish its etnicity report:

http://www.google.com/diversity/at-google.html

It looks like Indians are reported together with Asians, which is 30%. From what I can tell around hall ways, this reflects the reality.

Who da'Punk said...

Well now.

Many times I've wondered whether it was possible to let this blog go on unmoderated and let the participants have a productive dialog.

Based on this post: nnnnnnnope.

And I'm not surprised. Nor am I surprised by venting that escalated upwards and onwards. We got to "nazi" in less than a day.

So moderation is back on. And I suck at moderating (mostly because I'm wading through a bunch of depressing crap), so things will back up a little.

Should you want to indulge in the parallel unmoderated Cutting Room Floor comment thread, here you go:
Unfiltered - 18,000 Microsoft Jobs Gone... Eventually?
.

Who da'Punk said...

...yeah, really suck. I just published a bunch of old comments I meant to delete.

Sorry about that.

Rusty.

Anonymous said...

Does anyone have any idea about how many non-Nokia MSFT folks have already been laid off?

Anonymous said...

"There's a redefining of PM role in my org. (ASG)"

Can you elaborate on that? I'm an OSG PM looking to know more...

WRT Terry's mail today: am I naive to not really be worried anymore? It seems like he was very clearly trying to say "I promise I'm done". Only two things that threw me off:

1. He mentioned a 6 month master plan. Is he saying stuff might happen in 7 months or am I reading too much into it? That said, 6 months from now we'll be in Threshold M3 ... would be unwise to make big changes right before shipping.

2. At the same point where he mentions lack of 6 months plan to do X, Y, Z...the one thing he seems to have not listed was changing the PM role.

So perhaps we'll see the PM role change in <= 6 months and PM cuts happen after Threshold ships?

Again, maybe I'm reading too much into it.

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know an actual living person, not in upper management, who has gotten to age 55 and received the sweet prize of having all their stocks vest? It seems all the older workers get laid off, managed out, or perhaps strangled in the parking garages. Does it ever happen? I mean getting the prize, not the strangling. We all know the strangling happens.

Anonymous said...

1351

Raman said...

@anonymous MBS do not require these many managers, There should be one good leader who can manage all of MBS resources

Anonymous said...

Anyone know how to tell whether someone has been laid off? People are still showing up in the GAL and headtrax.

Anonymous said...

little off topic but, MS hasn't gotten any of my money and many others a while because of products going down hill, anyone feel like naming the person(s) who are responsible for wrecking Visual studio staring with VS2012 on up?
if anyone deserves to go it them!

Anonymous said...

Even though this shakeup is tremendously damaging in the near term Nadella needs to change the culture and change the product lines. I will be convinced that he will succeed when we see an android version of office365. I actually think it might happen. Microsoft is clearly staking out the low end of the smart phone market with its Win 8 phones. Yeah they dropped the Android phone but that would be confusing to customers in the markets they are targeting. I also think Microsoft needs to rethink it's embedded OS strategy and probably is. I see no reason whatsoever to sell the essentially the same version of Windows in tablets, notebooks, and desktops.

For the folks that got laid off. I predict they will eventually have opportunities in the future to return as part of the contingent workforce. Personally I think a wiser course is to leverage their abilities and knowledge to seek opportunities in organizations other than Microsoft. As folks have alluded to, upgrade and broaden your skill set. Participate in Open Source projects, tackle the learning curve required to being productive in non Microsoft technologies like Android, iOS, Linux, GNU, etc.

Anonymous said...

>Ultimately, what these layoffs demonstrated is that you may be a strong contributor with a good track record valued by your coworkers and management in one of the major cash cows of a profitable division, and yet you can get let go in untroubled times with two days notice.

>Ask yourself how motivated this makes you to work long hours, go above and beyond and invest in the company for the long term.

Totally agree. I am one of those who got laid off on Thursday, with 1.6 average review score. All my co-workers were shocked. I was shocked to see some others who were great performers, too. What did all those great reviews, incredible reputation (especially from dev & pm) mean then? How can anybody be secure?

Anonymous said...

@Monday, July 21, 2014 11:01:00 PM
Does anyone know an actual living person, not in upper management, who has gotten to age 55 and received the sweet prize of having all their stocks vest?


My best friend was managed out. She was just over 55 and her stocks will continue to vest as if she were with the company.

In her particular case it was the same old story. She was a Senior PM (MS in Computer Science) with many years of MSFT experience. She had always received excellent-to-average reviews and even a company-wide award a few months before she was let go.

What happened? A new, much younger, imported manager took a disliking to her; probably because they had very little in common.

She was walked out in the middle of a presentation she was giving. You can't even imagine the hell she went through the months before she was walked. MSFT's treatment of her was unconscionable. She obviously hired an attorney and I'm happy to report the results were positive.

Anonymous said...

While I feel bad about people losing jobs this was bound to happen. I was knowing it from the day we bought Nokia and created a single OSG. I left for good 4 months back.

I have been involved in past for hiring. Once I got chance to go on hiring event for WinSE. I was surprised seeing their low bar and choosing bad people. When I confronted, the reply was 'hey, if we hire too much smart person, they will leave SE in 2 years for other org.' A smart guy anyhow moved leaving behind loads of mediocrity. Alas MS stack ranking was never done across company. I have worked with a 1 in SE and they are at times not even 3 in some stronger product org. Now not all of them are bad but this organization needs to go away. Windows guy better clean their own shit.

Terry's mail was extremely poor. Sorry folks we fired people randomly, we will not flatten the organization, leads and managers will do nothing and we will have another massive layoff after 5 years. if window is still relevant.

Anonymous said...

Did WINSE team got impacted in OSG or was it only product team

Anonymous said...

I have to say that Terry Meyerson handled this much the way you recommend, Mini. He sent an email saying it would all be done on one day, by a certain time. two days later he sent another, saying it was done and no plans for further changes. Compare that with Elop, who blathered at great length before getting to the point.
I am in OSG, and many of the people who left were my friends. I grieve for them, and feel a little unsure about my own future, but as there's no great way to handle layoffs, I think this was the least bad way.

Anonymous said...

Wondering what experience people have had with Lee Hecht Harrison - the outplacement company... I have access to some kind of deal with them but wondering if it's worth taking the time or if we have other options.

Anonymous said...

"I am one of those who got laid off on Thursday, with 1.6 average review score. All my co-workers were shocked. I was shocked to see some others who were great performers, too. What did all those great reviews, incredible reputation (especially from dev & pm) mean then? How can anybody be secure?"

If you managed that great score not by political skills but by good test skills, you should feel secure that your skills will get hired anywhere else.

Anonymous said...

Mini, please turn moderation off. The conversation was so much more candid, amusing, and humorous when all hell was breaking loose.

Anonymous said...

Former 'Softie here with a couple observations.

The 6-month break for vendors is going to be a disaster for some groups. I predict it may get rescinded or pushed back as the deadline approaches.

My wife was a v- dev for the last few years (she just left for an FTE offer elsewhere). In her origination, almost ALL of the actual production is done by vendors, which number as many as FTEs. The FTEs are always busy all day with meetings, org level tasks and politics and rely on the output of their vendors to keep the group humming along.

The catch is that for much of what they do there is a long ramp up needed before new people understand the processes and issues in enough detail. For what my wife (and many others) did, it takes about 3-4 months to onboard a new person. Is someone going to approve the budget for another set of vendors to come on payroll Sept 1st, 2015 and tie up all the current v- people while they train their replacements for the next 4 months to avoid things grinding to halt on Jan 1? And if replacements are trained, the people leaving are not going to expect, nor want, to come back and a huge amount of tribal knowledge gets lost all at once.

The other thing I see is that MSFT is losing some of its grip on the enterprise and probably doesn't realize it. Windows 8 and 8.1 have been an disaster in the corporate world for reasons expressed already, and I'm not seeing anything that leads me to expect a serious turn around with windows 9.

I started a new job a year ago as a dev in a Fortune 50 company. I was issued a MacBook pro, as is everyone else, even though I am not doing iOS or OS X development. Everyone in the company has a Macbook. Everyone. EveryFarkingOne. Lots of of managers and execs use iPads everyday for work as well. The company is deliberately transitioning away from Windows. My group recently needed a Windows laptop to run an external vendor utility that used custom HW drivers. We had to jump through major hoops to get one. Our IT dept's normal response to Windows requests is to use VMWare or Parallels with an image of Win 7 Enterprise. Win8 not supported. Office (Mac) is still standard, and they seem happy with Exchange for corporate email, and I have no idea what runs our data centers, but that's still tens of thousands of Windows OS licenses that have slipped away, and I don't see coming back.

I didn't see anything from Satya that make me believe the trends I'm seeing are going to turn around and strengthen Microsoft in the corporate world.

Anonymous said...

Any more news what the criteria was for selecting who to layoff?

Anonymous said...

What's new on Monday/Tuesday? I heard some M2s are turned to leads or ICs in SigMa. What is going on in SNAP?

Anonymous said...

What does Adress book/Lync say about people impacted by layoff now?

Anonymous said...

My severance package said 'for L64 or below'. Curious what is different in L65+ packages.
Did anyone L65+ impacted by layoffs?

Anonymous said...

This would break my heart into pieces since Microsoft meant much more than a paycheck to me. I loved being at work more than doing many other things..
This being my first job after collage I grew up at MS hallways.
Made many great friends, which I truly enjoyed spending time with more than my non-work friends.

But, I am not (that heart broken) - thank God.
Because I learned just how much I, as a all time top performer meant to Microsoft a little while ago. When I found myself in the middle of a political situation, how cruel, especially my TM turned into. How my lead sold his soul. How some of my co-workers did all they could to hurt, just to look good to the TM.
Ever since I was on my path to leave. But I did not want to quit because of these jerks and decided to wait. I would give my notice to quit after my stocks vest in September 4th. Glad MS is gifting me 6 months of pay now.

To the loyals in MS (as I was one of them). Put work in right place in your lives. Not below, but also not above to where it belongs.

Anonymous said...

What about the thousands of vendors who now lose their (often) long held positions (for contractors, 3 years plus in the same office is a LONG time!) for 6 months because of this absurd claim that we are IP risks? Isn't shuffling people out more of a risk than keeping employees?

I know this is centered primarily at FTEs but we all know that the A-'ers and V-'ers handle the majority of the day to day operations for the company and keep it running. From testers to PMs the "dash trash" is a huge part of the company and the current actions Satya is taking look like they are going to have a heavy, negative effect.

Anonymous said...

Well, one way to be less rusty would be to post more often...

Anonymous said...

No more layoffs :-) this place is completely silent...?!

Anonymous said...

The reality is if the market & our competitors are not hiring/rewarding folks with certain skills then it will be pretty hard for Microsoft to continue doing so esp if competition is leading over us.

Duplicate skill set across various teams which are individually not doing well has to be rationalized.

Luckily the job market is booming => folks will have significant opportunities.

The current set of lay offs is a wake up call for all of us about the need to be in sync with business momentum and market trends....I know .. easier said than done.

Anonymous said...

I work in OSG and several of my colleagues who were let go were not low performers or superfluous; we are now faced with substantial gaps that will put critical projects in holding pattern due to those losses.

I do not (for one second) believe OSG's cuts are done.

On a side note, any word about Dynamics (cuts or future cuts)?

Anonymous said...

I am working with a reputed firm in Bay area and i have interviewed couple of microsoft engineers, and all of them were no hires pretty much from everyone in the panel including me. What i see is
1. arrogance.
2. questions like when will i become a manager.
3. too much into microsoft technologies - we use c++, java on linux.
4. The attitude - "Hey i come from Microsoft hire me"

Very wrong - time to reset expectations and get back to reality. I am sure all those layed off will certainly get great jobs, but remember you are who you are and the work you put for your organization is for your growth too, not just for the org. You are free to leave whenever you want and so is the org allowed to leave you whenever it wants.

If you put that into mind that your job is always temporary, your thoughts will improve and you will open up your mind to the world and think about the greater good. You will ignore internal politics and you will perform for your satisfaction, not for ratings.

Anonymous said...

Good to have you back mini. As usual, you are speaking to the very core of the concerns and challenges. The cuts should be addressed now as opposed to dragging this out over the next year. This impacts morale, WHI, innovation, and productivity. What happened to transparency at MS?? Is Microsoft still considered a great place to work?

Anonymous said...

Is anyone aware of any lay off in Hyderabad (IDC or MSIT)??

Anonymous said...

There are happening conversations that the count is significantly more than 18k. I guess performance management may be a separate exercise. If around 12.5 is only Nokia overlap, Win/Xbox teams downsizing, Marketing and Finance one, Increasing the span/depth and cutting short the manager count will be easily accounting to rest of 18k. So the performance management batch, and SDET downsizing across other teams etc. and other restricting effort may be separate count. I believe the company may be looking for more and more. What do you think? BTW, no big heads rolling yet? not even at a GM/Director level.. Strange.. Potentially spin up a offshore team with one GM compensation package.... Isn't it?

Anonymous said...

"Mini, please turn moderation off. The conversation was so much more candid, amusing, and humorous when all hell was breaking loose.

Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:17:00 PM"

Gah! No! It is SO much better to read through a handful of relevant posts than to try to sift them from the sewage that overwhelmed the comments before moderation. Thanks for doing the sifting for us, Mini.

Anonymous said...

To find out if someone is still there (if HeadTrax and GAL are uncertain), type at a Windows command line: "net user {MS alias} /domain". This will work if that other person is on the same computer domain as you. After doing this, look for the 'Account Active' line in the results, if it says 'no' that account isn't usable.

Anonymous said...

Any word on when the Finance layoffs will take place?

Anonymous said...

What is the expected revised span of control and organization depth? Lot of churn expected as suggested @5:01:00 AM. The cuts including flattening organization seems to be having an impact much beyond 18k.

Anonymous said...

My sympathy to all who lost the job. I know the pain….I was RIFed last October after 13 years with MSFT (“We don’t need your group anymore, we are device and services company now”) …..The good part of it that there are plenty of opportunities out there. In my case, I partnered with a couple of people like me and we kicked off a startup that helps find a job for SDE, SDET and ITPrp/DevOps through online hiring events. It's also good for people who are still working but are looking for something better/different. The process is ANONYMOUS – check it here and sign up (http://DevDraft.com). The process is simple - you sign up, complete a few challenges, and the participating NW tech companies will send you offers – nobody knows who you are until you accept the offer. Good luck!!

Pete said...

I don't work at Microsoft but this blog is very interesting --thank you for sharing. My friend and I actually just did a segment about this website on our podcast. If anyone wants to listen, or be a guest on our show, we'd love to have you at workhugs.com. Here is a direct link to the episode:

http://traffic.libsyn.com/workhugs/Episode_14_-_Justin_Harris_MBA__-_4_3.mp3

Anonymous said...

Seattle Times Pri0 notes that 1,000 jobs are on the block in Finland. Nokia surely has other units elsewhere but the number has to add up to 12,500. Where from?

Anonymous said...

On a side note, any word about Dynamics (cuts or future cuts)?

The relevant sentence from Kirill's email last Thursday:

"While we are not eliminating any positions in MBS group today, I am asking each leader to examine where and how we need to change our innovation processes, culture and the way we work in order to accelerate our path forward."

Anonymous said...

"What's new on Monday/Tuesday? I heard some M2s are turned to leads or ICs in SigMa."

Yes, I have noticed one M2 being made IC. He was not in Sigma. Customer experience Test.

Anonymous said...

"What does Adress book/Lync say about people impacted by layoff now?"

I notice them as being away since 7/20 atleast with sometimes an OOF message with external contact info. I heard they all lost access to corpnet and buildings on Sunday.

Anonymous said...

Another former Microsoftie. As many have already said, there is life after Microsoft and, in fact, it can be much better.

One of the reasons that made me leave Microsoft, years ago, was that I realized that recently I was doing a lot less of what I like (writing software) and spending almost my entire time with politics. Don't get me wrong, all corporations have politics, and I'm perfectly fine dealing with some level of politics, as part of things to do at work.

However, in the case of Microsoft, I noticed that politics became the only thing. To a level that shipping a product became just a side effect of all the political machinations going on. Because of that you have things like the Kin, which I can only imagine that it shipped because of some crazy political schemes going on at E and D at the time.

For Microsoft to get out of its current funk, it will require a big change in the current culture. To make people value creating great products, and work together, as opposed to spend their entire time trying to get the best political angle out of everything.

However, I don't think that will happen under Satya, if I may give my two cents. Satya is a product of the current system: in a company completely taken by politics, he is the ultimate political operator. He managed to position himself always on the right side of things, and kept climbing the ladder all the way to the very top.

In fact, I'll risk a prediction: I don't think that Satya will stay as CEO for very long, and that will be by his own desire. I think that he plans to do a number of things that please Wall Street (such as layoffs) and make MS stock go higher and higher. Just as that is going on, he will be selling all the stock that I'm sure he is getting as part of his compensation. He will do that for two or three years, until he gets as close to be a billionaire as he can be. At that point, he will leave the CEO position, by his own decision, to join some VC firm or Patent Holding firm (such as IV) to make even more money. And he will leave the mess behind him, for somebody else to take care of it.

Then, we will see in which shape Microsoft will be.

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know if people who met the age 55 and 15 years with MSFT were allowed to retire and continue to have their stock grants vest in future years, as opposed to being cut as of 9/15? Also, can we hear how puny of bonus is being given to those who are leaving? Will they receive nothing for bonus? Clearly a stock grant vesting later is not of any use.

Other than the week of severance for every six months as an employee, and the six months of insurance (far more than the 2009 people got when their insurance ended along with their 60 days of WARN notice), did anyone receive anything else? And are those over 40 or in any other protected class seeking the help of an employment attorney before signing? Was the bulk "everyone here is canned" message as tacky as it sounds to the large groups who were notified en masse?

Anonymous said...

For those still employed at review time, ask how Microsoft will be investing in your career this year? If you are missing a degree or two, use education reimbursement to upgrade your education level this year. Ask to attend a conference in your field of work, and network with the people there from other companies. It is always easier to look for the next job while you still have one. If you need to refinance your house and have been putting it off, do it now, because they day they lay you off, it will be too late.

For those laid off in this round, go to the Fidelity website start a 401K loan. See if you can find out for sure if you can continue the repayment plan from your own bank account instead of through payroll deduction after employment ends, ask it as a hypothetical future question, not in regard to you and your account. Worst case is that if they want the entire loan balance repaid and you can't do it, you will taxed on the money outstanding and hit with a 10% penalty for an early withdrawal. If you can continue the repayment schedule from your own account, you can borrow up to half of the 401K balance up to a max of $50,000 (if you haven't had a 401K loan in the past 12 months, otherwise the max is different). Log into your account and go to "loans and withdrawals" to see how much you can borrow at 4.25% currently. It's your money, and if you can repay it over the standard 5 years, it could cushion a lot of the blow of losing your income stream. OR, use the severance and unemployment checks to tide you over while you look for a new job. If you need to access the 401K savings in 2015 as a withdrawal, roll over the amount you need into an IRA, and then there are exceptions to the 10% penalty like for education or medical expense. You still get to pay the taxes on an early withdrawal, but if you wait into next year, it may be that you will have a lower tax bracket, take a look and run the numbers. The IRS has a withholding calculator to run your projected tax liability for the year. Pay a professional to help if need be.

For all those who missed out on the layoffs of 2009, there have been 5 years to realize that MSFT isn't a stable employer that you can rely on forever. Hopefully anyone who needs a reminder to save early and often, and live beneath your means, will think that over now.

Waiting to hear that some layers of management like directors reporting to directors have been axed in the flat org plan. Would really like to hear why employees who most recently were told they are valued, were the ones selected for this cut of 1351.

Anonymous said...

To "I am working with a reputed firm in Bay area". If you base your decision making on the (alleged)case of 2 example then I question the reputedness of your firm. And I say this as an English major. :)

While the anecdote doesn't ring true, the message does. It's a changing an innovative industry and the stability of many groups at Microsoft over the years is an anomaly. We should all be prepared for change, even if it means we transform ourselves.

Anonymous said...

"Did anyone L65+ impacted by layoffs?"

Short answer, yes.

Anonymous said...

"I have to say that Terry Meyerson handled this much the way you recommend, Mini. He sent an email saying it would all be done on one day, by a certain time. two days later he sent another, saying it was done and no plans for further changes. Compare that with Elop, who blathered at great length before getting to the point.
I am in OSG, and many of the people who left were my friends. I grieve for them, and feel a little unsure about my own future, but as there's no great way to handle layoffs, I think this was the least bad way."

+1

Anonymous said...

After working in a few positions over a few years I expect to see inefficiency and profit year over year at MS. Layoffs are like moving the furniture. Management is in part about changing something somewhere and blowing buzzwords about the innovation.

Ballmer's biggest offense was not making more and more but not making more and more and more.

If MS ruled mobile and the cloud like it rules office and servers it would be back in court with the DoJ for a breakup. If MS had stuck with only office and servers it would be richer and the All Wise All Knowing Blogging Prophets of Doom would be howling all the more.

Microsoft is a multi-national company and every country in which Microsoft sells products would like to have more citizens as Microsoft employees. So those countries look out for their citizen's interest. Foreign countries make Microsoft obey their laws and keep writing new laws for Microsoft to obey for those countries profit. I have worked in European countries in positions that require US citizenship and my USA company and I still had to fill out paper work to prove I am not taking a job from their citizens. This is true in Germany where private businesses recruit workers in certain areas when Germany really runs short of needed workers.

There is massive worldwide piracy of Microsoft products especially in the BRIC (Brazil, Russia, India, and China) countries. I would not suspect USA v- citizens to be more likely of stealing Microsoft IP if they work more than 18 months with campus access than foreign MS workers living in the USA or in their home countries.

In my limited experience, visa workers range not only from very good to not so good as with USA citizens but also include a learning-on-the-job option not available to the same degree for US citizens. There is nothing wrong with any private USA business doing this until you get to Gates telling Congress he needs more visa workers because US born workers lack skills. Many MS employees are "blue collar" IT workers in infrastructure as opposed to SDE(T) in marketed applications. USA citizens in infrastructure positions can be replaced with visa workers and never be heard from on this blog or elsewhere.


...at least Ellison can speak in complete sentences without sweating, fidgeting and claiming to be your friend.

Anonymous said...

Not just true for big corporations, but also for Microsoft specifically: http://www.overcomingbias.com/2014/07/firm-inefficiency.html

Anonymous said...

I think MS is great company, it's the people who need to make it great. SDEs need to own their software and understand how it is used and write test code for it. They have been lazy about not learning the customer usage of their features. Now SDE's need to wake-up and figure out how their features are used and write tests as a user. I know from past experience that a lot of MS SDEs don't even know who their customers are and how they are using their code/changes. This is a good change. Since SDE's now own their features there is no need for SDETs, they can become regular SDEs. This is a much better model. If only MS applies scrum and agile methodologies where it is easier to see who is working on what and how they are developing what, then cronyism will become a much harder task and everyone who is not delivering can be easily identified, things would be much better.

MS in general should eliminate SDET and have developers/past testers all part of the development team that own their own stuff, it's a step in the right direction. Now if we can make it so that PM/features are not trumped up, but are real customer scenarios/bottom up features that developers thought of, there is a future for MS after all.

Ownership and accountability should be native things that everyone thinks off, I own this feature/area is a much better motivation. Just look at Amazon.

Anonymous said...

I always keep my resume active on Dice, I have been a v- in the past. I have received like four calls from shops about Microsoft v- jobs since the layoff with 2 being SDET jobs. The pay rate they are talking about is a joke. Furthermore doing a little research on two of the shops, there is a lot of negative stuff on them. Mediocre shops aren't that good but bottom of the barrel shops are completely unacceptable since getting paid on time is iffy with them.

So... It looks to me like MSFT may be replacing layed off people with much cheaper contingent workers. Would anyone really be surprised. Btw the 6 month hiatus rule is fairly common at other companies. No biggie really. Some of the v- folks are key players in project work and quite frankly the directs want no part of what those v- people are doing because it isn't helpful to advancement. January of 2016 should be interesting. I expect of lot talented v- folks to move on before that though.

Anonymous said...

anyone feel like naming the person(s) who are responsible for wrecking Visual studio staring with VS2012 on up?
Sinofsky.

He and his Dev-focused PMs (the same group that brought sidebar apps for Vista) forced DevDiv to embrace Metro and their crappie WinRT API. WinJS...seriously!?!

Anonymous said...

What's new on Monday/Tuesday? I heard some M2s are turned to leads or ICs in SigMa. What is going on in SNAP?

------

All across the org, there are M1's and M2's fighting it out to see who gets to keep their jobs. So tense that I hear there's been crying in at least one of the meetings. Some M2's have set Friday noon as the deadline for making the M1 decisions in their groups.

snap lost a lot of testers, but with the size of the team it is not a surprise.

Anonymous said...

why are leads/managers not pruned? most leads/mgrs are glorified secretaries whose only job is sending emails. i know of a dev lead who had never used the product. the only thing that lead did was send emails.

Anonymous said...

""Did anyone L65+ impacted by layoffs?"

Short answer, yes."

Thanks. Do you mind sharing the long answer?

Anonymous said...

Where are the management cuts? Could we please lose Kevin Turner and every other tight-wad who came from Walmart and thought they could help run a software company?

Anyone have an offer extended to new hires, and they have said no thanks (or just no)? Why would anyone of high caliber leave a job to come to Microsoft at this time, or choose it as a place to start their career?

Anonymous said...

I got the ax back in 2009. As many others have said, there is life after MS and it's much better. I do have a few suggestions for those who got hit, based on my experience.

1. If your manager gives you a bad review that you think is unwarranted and you are subsequently targeted in the lay off for performance reasons, demand to see the feedback that your manager allegedly based the review on. My manager wrote several untruths, including a comment that "no one had anything good" to say about me in my review. I was laid off within 48 hours. I immediately demanded to see the feedback in the database. Surprise! There was feedback from 8 people and it was all positive to glowing. I didn't get my job back, but I was able to use my manager's deceit to get an increase in severance with the threat of a law suit.

2. Cast a wide net in your job search, if possible. There are not enough jobs in Seattle for techies. I immediately started a nation-wide search. In the end, I got a job with another major tech company after 9 months of searching. Since then, I have been promoted twice, I have had the opportunity to live and work in The Netherlands and Russia and I'm making more than I could ever have dreamed of making at MS.

3. You may have some dark days ahead, but there's light at the end of the tunnel if you play your cards right (have an effective job search, etc.). It's in your power to turn this situation into a positive.

...and as for my manager: she's still at MS, at the same level, doing the same job. I wouldn't trade places with her for the world. Karma, baby!

Anonymous said...

anyone feel like naming the person(s) who are responsible for wrecking Visual studio staring with VS2012 on up?
Sinofsky.

"He and his Dev-focused PMs (the same group that brought sidebar apps for Vista) forced DevDiv to embrace Metro and their crappie WinRT API. WinJS...seriously!?!"

yeah I already knew that but how about the names of the Sinofsky PM's that are still @MS how didnt fix it after he left, I need someone new to hate! I used to beat Sinofsky in my mind when to help me get to sleep then switched to ballmer, need help please

Anonymous said...

I started out as an A- in late 2000. Complete career change (from construction contractor). I saw early on that I was just a number/headcount. I did eventually get an FTE position in 2005, and good reviews until a re-org put me under an impossible to please and abusive manager. I left in 2011 after 6 1/2 years to return as a V-. My wife and I decided to make a HUGE decision, and left family and friends to move to the Boise Idaho area. My mortgage went from $1900 a month to $600 a month. Property taxes went from $3800 a year to $1200 a year. Even my car insurance was cut in half. The move was primarily based on leaving the liberal western Washington area for a more conservative Idaho. But there are other side benefits that really have nothing to do with liberal/conservative issues. People are just friendlier here. They smile at one another. And greet one another.

If you have thought at all about a move away from the hustle and bustle of the large metropolis area, take a look at XtremeConsulting.com/careers. We have openings for developers and web designers.

Anonymous said...

What about layoffs in MSR? The company spends several billion/year funding research. What do we have to show for it? Kinect - maybe but for that many billion ??
That billions are a significant portion of the revenue that a struggling company cant afford.

I don't care if P != NP if the company is going to struggle to compete. First get the company in a better state, then go fund research.

Empower each group with some funds to hire researchers as needed and cut the fat research org!

Anonymous said...

You're not being laid off, you're being terminated in at your review

Anonymous said...

For those impacted by the cuts. Are they able to reapply for openings right away or is there a cooling off period?

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